Crowd Wisdom for Diagnosis?

Peggy Zuckerman peggyzuckerman at GMAIL.COM
Wed Jul 17 16:27:10 UTC 2013


Dr. Zamir's suggestion that doctors who are puzzled by a diagnosis and turn
to this or similar sites could solve some of the errors  that occur.
Frankly, I am more concerned about the doctor who has made a misdiagnosis,
and has no idea that he has done so.

Thus the need for the patient to search out more input into the unresolved
issue.  There is little information on the impact of misdiagnosis, but many
in this community have personal experience with this.  Multiply that
tenfold and you get a sense of the cost to our society.

A friend sums this up in the simple question that floats in the mind of
every frustrated patient, "How do I know if my doctor knows what he is
talking about?".

Peggy Z


On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 7:35 AM, Timothy Krohe <tkrohe1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Agree with Dr Zamir the better utility of posting to physicians-only
> services .
>
>
>
> While my goal is not to provide a plug,  this type of assistance happens
> regularly on sermo.com .  In frequent posts,   a physician  describes a
> case,  requests help AND usually provides feedback to enhance learning.
> All posts are visible to all physicians, so there are glimpses of "how
> (other) doctors think".  Access is free to licensed physicians.  The
> website has MANY other humor/stress release/political/administrative
> postings as well so is not purely clinical and you need to sift for the
> clinically useful posts.
>
>
>
> In the DoD, there is a worldwide teleconsult service that emails requests
> for help , often from the outlying combat or isolated bases. A large group
> of specialists/internists from the larger military hospitals have
> responsibility to respond quickly with comments/recommendations.   Very
> collegial and supportive for those docs/corpsmen/NPs/PAs providing care in
> isolated area. Access obviously limited to DoD.
>
>
> I have enjoyed and learned (and I hope helped other MDs) from both
> systems.  No fees for the reqeuster in either.
>
>
> TL Krohe MD General Internal Medicine
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ehud Zamir [mailto:ezamir at UNIMELB.EDU.AU]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 9:23 PM
> To: IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Crowd Wisdom for Diagnosis?
>
>
>
> Interesting idea. However, one has to remember that in primary care, most
> patients with unresolved symptoms (after medical assessment) have no
> serious or significant underlying problem. Not sure anyone has ever counted
> them, but I think one may safely assume that a competent GP is often
> required to conclude, correctly, "I don't know what the reason for your
> chronic headache is, Mrs Smith, but I can tell you it is unlikely to be
> anything serious". The risk of such a project, is that, statistically, in
> the majority of patients who believe they are a "diagnostic mystery", none
> of the ideas raised by the "detectives" will really help reach a
> significant diagnosis (simply because there is none). There will possibly
> be an occasional misdiagnosis needle in the haystack, but that will be
> diluted by a lot of background noise. That is the one of the challenges of
> primary care in the first place, isn't it?
>
> I think it would be more likely to help if the cases were ones where
> doctors  posted their unresolved cases where they felt the unease of a
> truly unresolved, and potentially serious, problem. Statistically, it would
> increase the utility of second opinions.
>
>
>
> Just my two cents
>
> Ehud
>
>
>
> Ehud Zamir, MD, FRANZCO
>
> Centre for Eye Research
>
> Melbourne Australia
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
> From: David Meyers [dm0015 at ICLOUD.COM]
>
> Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013 5:10 AM
>
> To: IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG
>
> Subject: Re: Crowd Wisdom for Diagnosis?
>
>
>
>
>
> Dr Lisa Sanders, the NY Times medical correspondent, has been doing this
> for quite a while in the Sunday magazine.  See link:
> http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/news/health/columns/diagnosis/index.html.
> There are also Twitter resources in emergency medicine like this.  One
> has to be careful to use the wisdom of crowds  (see James Surowiecki,
> 2004) and not the madness of crowds (Charles Mackay, 1841), if we can tell
> the difference.
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> David L Meyers, MD, FACEP
>
> dm0015 at icloud.com
>
> Mobile: 410-952-8782
>
> Fax: 410-367-0449
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 16, 2013, at 1:59 PM, Bill Thatcher <BillThatcher at MINDSPRING.COM>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>       Yesterday I posted a short piece from Mark Graber, MD about an
> intriguing new website:
>
>
>
>       CrowdMed.com  <http://www.crowdmed.com/> is a new online startup
> that uses the 'wisdom of the crowd' to suggest the correct diagnosis for
> patients with unresolved symptoms. The project is the brainchild of Jared
> Heyman, an internet-entrepreneur, who thought of the idea after his sister
> suffered through an undiagnosed illness for over three years. Cases are
> submitted by patients for a small fee, and anyone can register as an "MD"
> (medical detective - cute, eh? No license required) to suggest a diagnosis
> or vote on the suggestions already made.
>
>
>
>       You can read the rest of the post from Mark Graber here:
>
>
>
>       http://improvediagnosis.site-ym.com/blogpost/950784/Latest-News
>
>
>
>       Bill Thatcher
>
>
>
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-- 
Peggy Zuckerman
www.peggyRCC.wordpress.com







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