Ebola in Dallas

Peggy Zuckerman peggyzuckerman at GMAIL.COM
Mon Oct 6 17:38:45 UTC 2014


Just to be slightly contrary, I wonder why no one in this discussion has
mentioned the responsibility of the patient? He had just arrived from
Liberia, where he had carried a desperately ill woman to and from a
hospital, and knew she died the following day, and her brother the day
after.  Certainly he knew that what killed her and the brother was
exceedingly serious, even if he hoped it was not Ebola.  Then he moved into
a home with his girlfriend and her daughter--both of whom worked in health
care/nursing home facilities--and several children.

A simple question to the man, "What do you think this is?" may have
elicited his information and limited the exposure to so many others.  Not
to mention that someone with an MD degree gave a man with virus some
antibiotics.

Peggy Zuckerman

On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Knapp, Lucy <LKnapp at peacehealthlabs.org>
wrote:

> Finally! While reading this line on Ebola and the news reports I am struck
> by one thing --- Black man with an accent --- During the exam, didn't the
> physician think to ask "Been out of the country?" It seems inexcusable to
> me. Like it or not, the buck stops with the physician. To pass the blame to
> the EHR or nurse is a cop out.
>
> That said - I do think there is reason to pursue WHY the physician made
> the error and how to prevent it in the future, but let's not tiptoe around
> the issue.
>
> Lucy Knapp, MT (ASCP)  l  Technical Specialist, Chemistry  l
> PeaceHealth Laboratories l  400 NE Mother Joseph Place Vancouver, WA 98664
> Office 360.514.2732  l  Email lknapp at peacehealthlabs.org
> www.peacehealthlabs.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Seidman, Roberta [mailto:Roberta.Seidman at STONYBROOKMEDICINE.EDU]
> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 7:27 AM
> To: IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG
> Subject: Re: [IMPROVEDX] Ebola in Dallas
>
> The physician is responsible for obtaining the medical history from the
> patient.
>
>
> Roberta Seidman, M.D.
> Director of Neuropathology
> Associate Professor of Pathology
> Stony Brook University Hospital
> Voice:  631 444-2227
> Fax:  631 444-3419
>
> Please note my new email address:
> roberta.seidman at stonybrookmedicine.edu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Baumann, Andrea [mailto:baumanna at MCMASTER.CA]
> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 10:09 AM
> To: IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG
> Subject: Re: [IMPROVEDX] Ebola in Dallas
>
> Interesting put down on nurses notes ...
>
> Andrea Baumann, Associate V-P, Global Health, Faculty of Health Sciences
> Director, WHO Collaborating Centre in Primary Care Nursing & Health Human
> Resources Scientific Director, McMaster Site, NHSRU
> 1280 Main Street West, MDCL 3500
> Hamilton, Ontario    Canada L8S 4K1
> tel   +1.905.525.9140 ext. 22581   |   fax  +1.905.522.5493
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Swerlick, Robert A [mailto:rswerli at EMORY.EDU]
> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 9:34 AM
> To: IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG
> Subject: Re: [IMPROVEDX] Ebola in Dallas
>
> A busy ED physician faces a deluge of information and the ratio of signal
> to noise is small. The electronic health record used is not such much an
> information management tool. The key pieces of information needed to avoid
> the most recent embarrassment are hidden in various nooks and crannies of
> the record. I am reminded of reading the series of "Where's Waldo" books to
> my children at bedtime, desperately trying to find Waldo in the mass of
> tiny cartoon characters. The only difference is I don't even know what I am
> looking for in the medical record.
>
> Why didn't the ED physician read the nurses notes? The same reason s/he
> did not read every other page in the record. Whether justified or not, I
> suspect that the nursing notes may be filled with lots of extraneous
> information (noise) which seldom had been essential to assimilate to make
> decisions.
>
>  Industries which have gone further in terms of cracking this information
> management nut have figured out ways of putting important information in
> front of key decision makers when they are called upon to make decisions.
> As we delegate information collection to other parties, this is going to
> become an even larger issue.
>
> Bob Swerlick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Graedon [mailto:jgraedon at GMAIL.COM]
> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2014 8:43 PM
> To: IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG
> Subject: Re: [IMPROVEDX] Ebola in Dallas
>
> Guessing a very busy ER and a harried MD made a quick decision that turned
> out to be wrong.
>
> Here is our take on the passing of the buck:
>
>
> http://www.peoplespharmacy.com/2014/10/04/delayed-diagnosis-of-ebola-in-dallas-reveals-fundamental-flaws/
>
> Joe Graedon
>
> On Oct 5, 2014, at 6:31 PM, David L Meyers <dm0015 at ICLOUD.COM> wrote:
>
> > It appears that the cause of improving diagnosis in medicine was given
> an unfortunate boost in Dallas this week with the (mis)handling of the
> nation's first case of ebola both at the clinical and public health levels,
> that is already having risk management and public policy effects.  With
> respect to the actual care of the patient, who was not diagnosed until his
> second ED visit several days after his first one to the same ED, the full
> story remains to be elucidated, but we've witnessed the painful release of
> information followed by corrections and restatements that too often
> characterize events of this sort.
> >
> > Initially, a nurse seemed to be the culprit blamed for obtaining
> critical information about travel history from the Liberian patient
> recently arrived in Dallas from Lagos via Brussels and Washington and not
> passing it on the health care team or following the CDC guidelines for
> handling such patients, said to be in place at the hospital.  Next, blame
> focused on the failure of the EHR to properly communicate information
> between the nurse and subsequent providers including the treating
> physician. The latest information seems to be that the physician had the
> information and made a wrong decision regarding diagnosis, management and
> disposition; whether s/he acquired relevant history independently or from
> the EHR is not clear.
> >
> > More information and analysis is trickling in and it will be sometime
> before most of the facts are known, but it is clear there were human errors
> and system errors which contributed to the situation. This may wind up
> being the most studied case of diagnostic error to date with the greatest
> potential to alter how the public sees this problem.  I imagine the IOM
> committee now addressing this subject will have some very instructive
> material to work with.  Root cause analysis anyone?
> >
> > Here's a chronicle of the events as pieced together by the Dallas
> > Morning News.  Interesting reading.
> > http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metro/20141004-dallas-ebola-case-shows-
> > even-sound-plans-can-fail-spectacularly.ece
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Moderator: Lorri Zipperer Lorri at ZPM1.com, Communication co-chair,
> > Society for Improving Diagnosis in Medicine
> >
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-- 
Peggy Zuckerman
www.peggyRCC.wordpress.com







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