Commonest error in medicine
peggyzuckerman at GMAIL.COM
Mon Dec 8 06:04:53 UTC 2014
Rob, Charlie, et al,
I am not sure that you mean about trying this out, and wonder if you are
thinking about a study or such. Surely there could be studies, years in the
development and analysis, showing the value of this or not. During that
time, patients will be interrupted by their doctors within 18-20 seconds,
be unable to complete their story, and their diagnoses will be suboptimal.
Some have rightly criticized the Toolkit for being too doctor-centric. The
truth is that is was structured in recognition of the way that doctors are
taught to gather patient information, assuming that it was easier to teach
the patients this approach than change the physicians! Sorry to my friends
at the Society for Participatory Medicine for not taking a stronger stance
on this, but I want improved diagnoses tomorrow morning, and we can't
always wait for the doctors.
The excellent advice to patients to gather one's thoughts, write out the
questions, bring in the meds is excellent. But having such a form ready to
help with that task is helpful for the patient new to dealing with
doctors. We patients might actually try to take a few minutes to sound out
the physician, thinking it is the polite and trust-building thing to do,
while the doctor is stressed at the potential waste of time!
Doctors could offer the Toolkit via their websites or even in the waiting
room, and with that, start to build that trust relationship. Patients would
learn to be more thoughtful about their own condition and their
understanding of their symptoms, while a more organized and thorough
history may emerge.
I would love to get more comments from others, as in the great feedback
above. And I am getting the form re-created so patients can fill it in
online. Let us patients help in this diagnostic process--we pay the
greatest price when it goes wrong!
On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 8:06 PM, Amy Reinert <amy.reinert at gmail.com> wrote:
> The recent research in "empathy failure" on the part of physicians is a
> good place to start if searching the literature for data that supports a
> need for a more humanistic approach to healthcare. It has only been in the
> last 3-4 years that this topic has received any attention at all, but it is
> picking up steam.
> For those looking to do something about the problem, a good place to start
> might be to encourage some cross pollination between humanistic psychology
> and medicine. Carl Roger's seminal work On Becoming a Person lays out the
> case for the necessity of mutual trust and respect in the clinical
> relationship. I firmly believe that Rogers' principles are as applicable to
> physicians as they are to psychologists. Unfortunately, in my
> observation, a great many MD's don't learn enough about psychology
> (humanistic in particular) to really know what they are dismissing before
> they refuse to entertain certain concepts within the physician-patient
> relationship. Too many think it is about "sensitivity training," which
> really is not the case. Unless something has been published very recently,
> as far as I know, there are no studies yet that demonstrate whether or not
> a more humanistic approach would be helpful in reducing errors. Perhaps
> this group could work with a medical school to do a long-term study on the
> effects of humanistic training on diagnostic accuracy.
> Amy Ruzicka, Ph.D.
> On Saturday, December 6, 2014, Robert Bell <
> 0000000296e45ec4-dmarc-request at list.improvediagnosis.org> wrote:
>> Good points Vic.
>> First, do we have good information that most errors come the way you
>> If they do, do we need a code of practice interaction with patients,
>> different but similar to what is being worked out with the police and
>> public to de-escalate situations? Sounds like something the Speciality
>> Societies could work on as with each branch of medicine the interactions
>> would be different. But there could be a general code of patient contact
>> put out by say the AMA to start the ball rolling if your thesis is correct.
>> Is there any information in hospital Root Cause Analyses to suggest hat
>> you are correct?
>> If there was information, then getting it published would be a way to get
>> things started.
>> However, you bring to the front that generally we have no good data on
>> anything related to errors. Also, the police do not have good nationwide
>> data on how many unarmed people they kill each year.
>> There is a great reluctance to make this information available on the
>> part of the hospitals, physicians, and police because of litigation
>> Then the question becomes do we first change the litigation laws.
>> It is so complex - hard to know where to start.
>> Rob Bell
>> *From:* Vic Nicholls <nichollsvi2 at gmail.com>
>> *To:* Robert Bell <rmsbell200 at YAHOO.COM>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 6, 2014 3:01 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [IMPROVEDX] Commonest error in medicine
>> The most common errors in medicine are not listening to the patient and
>> respecting that the patient might be telling you the truth, inability to
>> believe a HCP can be wrong and to consider alternate diagnoses. Giving
>> mental diagnoses because HCP's don't want to be bothered to do legwork.
>> Last but most important is being human. I can think of a number of people
>> harmed who would expect something other than bullying, gaslighting,
>> stalking, gang stalking, risk managers/lawyers, and trying to use the cops
>> to silence people. Not everyone is a lawsuit. Some people just want better
>> & more compassionate care.
>> I would add that being your own worst enemy ranks up there guys. If you
>> can't consider the patient, consider why you got into medicine in the first
>> place. When a doc says they see 60-70% talking about money, we're going to
>> respond like that.
>> On 12/6/2014 11:21 AM, Robert Bell wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> I had the idea that instead of talking and sharing thoughts on a list server that some of the good will, and the time of the contributors could be used to actually DO something useful. Be it a resolution sent to the organizers of the list on a particular issue, or the basis for an article/publication. This, and perhaps a little naively, considering that the most successful technology companies operate on the basis of creativity and inclusiveness being intertwined. And this list had an amazing cross section of talent and diversity. Somehow I had the idea that we could miraculously DO something to help with the apperent lack of progress in the last 15 years since the IOM report on Errors.
>> But I think the hurdles of confidentiality, available tIme of contributors, differing society aims, competing projects, differing individual aims, patent considerations, litigation issues, and institute affiliations, etc., etc, are likely to make this all too great of an uphill battle.
>> Thank you for all being so gracious, to at least try to move the idea forward.
>> Robert Bell, M.D.
>> Sent from my iPad
>> For additional information and subscription commands, visit:http://www.lsoft.com/resources/faq.asp#4A
>> http://LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG/ <http://list.improvediagnosis.org/> (with your password)
>> Visit the searchable archives or adjust your subscription at:http://list.improvediagnosis.org/scripts/wa-IMPDIAG.exe?INDEX
>> Moderator: David Meyers, Board Member, Society to Improve Diagnosis in Medicine
>> To unsubscribe from the IMPROVEDX list, click the following link:<br>
>> <a href="http://list.improvediagnosis.org/scripts/wa-IMPDIAG.exe?SUBED1=IMPROVEDX&A=1" <http://list.improvediagnosis.org/scripts/wa-IMPDIAG.exe?SUBED1=IMPROVEDX&A=1> target="_blank">http://list.improvediagnosis.org/scripts/wa-IMPDIAG.exe?SUBED1=IMPROVEDX&A=1</a>
>> To unsubscribe from IMPROVEDX: click the following link:
>> or send email to: IMPROVEDX-SIGNOFF-REQUEST at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG
>> Moderator:David Meyers, Board Member, Society for Improving Diagnosis in
>> To learn more about SIDM visit:
> To unsubscribe from IMPROVEDX: click the following link:
> or send email to: IMPROVEDX-SIGNOFF-REQUEST at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG
> Moderator:David Meyers, Board Member, Society for Improving Diagnosis in
> To learn more about SIDM visit:
Moderator: David Meyers, Board Member, Society to Improve Diagnosis in Medicine
More information about the Test