Watson progress

Maureen Cahill MCahill at NCSBN.ORG
Mon Sep 11 13:23:16 UTC 2017


Bhavani Iyer is the IBM team member who oversees its search functions.  She might be helpful.

Bhavani Iyer
Software Engineer
Thomas J. Watson Research Center, Yorktown Heights, NY USA
bsiyer at us.ibm.com<mailto:bsiyer at us.ibm.com?subject=re:%20http%3A//researcher.watson.ibm.com/researcher/view.php%3Fperson%3Dus-bsiyer>  +19147846954

From: Phillip Benton [mailto:0000000697ec7b18-dmarc-request at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG]
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 2:51 PM
To: IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG
Subject: Re: [IMPROVEDX] Watson progress

Charlene, Brian, et al,

Does anyone have knowledge of attempts (IBM or others) to utilize artificial intelligence such as WATSON to perform RCA (Root Cause Analysis) in serious medical adverse events which resulted in death or serious permanent injury?

SoLogic Enterprise is attempting this but has not achieved (or sought?) the cloud-computer integration with / analysis of the existing EHR; instead, their data is entered by a human's formatted dictation based upon human analysis of the EHR and other sources. This takes much more time and money, and allows entry of individual physician bias.

Can anyone direct me to persons most knowledgeable about AI functioning to analyze the raw EHR? I have a research project in planning stage which will seek mandated remedial measures when root cause(s) of such serious Adverse Events can be reliably identified by AI then confirmed by human expert review. Studies of medical error to date have defined the types and extent of medical error, but nothing will change unless we utilize these data to consciously eliminate root causes, most of which are in systems used.

Presumably all of the data needed to determine RCA (and thus remedies needed) is sitting there in the EHR just waiting to be assembled. We need super AI  tech-savvy consultants to team with!  Please send me recommendations and bios if you have them.

Phillip Benton, MD JD
Orthopedic Spinal Surgeon, Atlanta Medical Center
Adjunct Professor, Emory Law School
pgbentonmd at aol.com<mailto:pgbentonmd at aol.com>
VeritasMedicus at gmail.com<mailto:VeritasMedicus at gmail.com>




-----Original Message-----
From: Charlene Weir <charlene.weir at UTAH.EDU<mailto:charlene.weir at UTAH.EDU>>
To: IMPROVEDX <IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG<mailto:IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG>>
Sent: Fri, Sep 8, 2017 2:03 am
Subject: Re: [IMPROVEDX] Watson progress
I am wondering if all of what Brian described would fit one of the basic premises of the book: Godel, Escher and Bach by Douglas Hofstadter. If I recall correctly, it was something about how a system cannot explain itself at the same level of complexity that it is at. If you ask individual clinicians to explain healthcare, you always get a very confusing, distorted, reflection of what goes on. I recall being in charge of an EMR implementation in the VA and we needed to design a discharge process with automatically activated order pathways. Nobody knew how the discharge process worked – we had to gather the various individuals and really map it out. I think those companies are paying individual clinicians and believing everything they say as being representative.  Just a thought!

Charlene


Charlene R. Weir
School of Medicine, University of Utah


From: "Jackson, Brian" <brian.jackson at ARUPLAB.COM<mailto:brian.jackson at ARUPLAB.COM>>
Reply-To: Society to Improve Diagnosis in Medicine <IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG<mailto:IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG>>, "Jackson, Brian" <brian.jackson at ARUPLAB.COM<mailto:brian.jackson at ARUPLAB.COM>>
Date: Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 10:06 AM
To: "IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG<mailto:IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG>" <IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG<mailto:IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG>>
Subject: Re: [IMPROVEDX] Watson progress

It really is astounding just how badly the big tech companies keep bungling their investments in healthcare.  GoogleHealth and Microsoft’s personal health records were both a flop. Google also wasted an enormous amount of money pursuing contact lens-based glucose monitors, despite decades-old research showing that glucose levels in tear fluid is way too variable to be useful for medical monitoring. GE spent a very long time, and billions of $, trying to corner the market in healthcare IT before admitting defeat.

This is definitely not for lack of technical capability.  Watson is technologically amazing for what it was designed to do; beating Ken Jennings was a mind-boggling moonshot sort of accomplishment.  And self-driving cars – that’s a crazy-hypercomplicated application.  IBM, Google, etc. have a constant stream of computer science PhDs flowing to them from MIT, CalTech, Stanford, and Harvard.  They can do stuff by brute force that we could barely imagine.  But they keep biting off the wrong healthcare problems to work on.  I don’t know if it’s because their management doesn’t really understand healthcare, or because they partner up with clinicians who don’t really understand the abilities and limitations of machine learning, or some other combination of issues.  But it’s been frustrating to watch this play out from the sidelines.

--Brian Jackson

From: Jason Maude [mailto:jason.maude at ISABELHEALTHCARE.COM<mailto:jason.maude at ISABELHEALTHCARE.COM?>]
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2017 3:14 AM
To: IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG<mailto:IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG>
Subject: Newsletter / Marketing: [IMPROVEDX] Watson progress

STAT has just published the most thorough and authoritative (and longest!) article on the current state of Watson. Not surprisingly, it’s not (yet) lived up to the marketing hype and proving more difficult to train and implement than thought.
https://www.statnews.com/2017/09/05/watson-ibm-cancer/<https://clicktime.symantec.com/a/1/saRlXJyq3ZVleqWUrxkPIdzbCZ8twpAagqm4TzASsT8=?d=O6K66vqQtR851Ld2opwqtDOdPVyjy6-vTcHk84yhsO_Gx-irpDgvVf4o65IpRSnuJO2c8GAAwJOcve2ws8R9BUvlVmZKdbAGhccFBNYMwFtSc4vJ_STQ7pJg9xfAI81pukccwfmX-2yqw9Xdk8_PvGm_ckhZGKoBy51fcrWSQ0LVR7SYDGbisk4Q1vj1ahx9pL1_wQBBdeH2V5rF3NbG0y6YhN68pE_XisRJlxoM_rjVI6hcAZ4u7RkzqpLJ4Sc1v3Ln4xcMzfeBPvSTG5hD-p-N0KVNU3iPUTiA5vzQ2xwb2NU0OEbVjp6DZIoV26k1pYsNi_DBD78IpoL88KIvVya4o4y2yaV7F8NL4LdfCmnhnnqkEW_rji-GWYUuh9CBV7gU5-IyGhDC6HP8fglJQFWjdyg%3D&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.statnews.com%2F2017%2F09%2F05%2Fwatson-ibm-cancer%2F>

Regards
Jason

Jason Maude
Founder and CEO Isabel Healthcare
Tel: +44 1428 644886
Tel: +1 703 879 1890
www.isabelhealthcare.com<http://www.isabelhealthcare.com>


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