DX measures

Tom Benzoni benzonit at GMAIL.COM
Thu Dec 6 22:03:02 UTC 2018


As the guy making the initial diagnosis:
We (ER) are responsible for >50% of admissions.

Our sole mission is to decide admit v discharge.
The rest is detail.

So an ideal ER diagnostic method would be:
"Presenting  complaint that qualifies for admission"

Unfortunately, for the hospital to be reimbursed, we have to pull a
diagnosis out of the air without the benefit of the (relatively) relaxed
workup available in hospital. So I think that poor kappa of ER v discharge
diagnosis would be the marker of a good system. The admission team did not
anchor to a diagnosis made in an hour with incomplete data.

Tom


On Thursday, December 6, 2018, Jason Maude <jason.maude at isabelhealthcare.com>
wrote:

> Does that mean we also agree that the presence of a DDx in the notes would
> be a good measure?
>
>
>
>
>
> Jason Maude
>
> Founder and CEO Isabel Healthcare
> Tel: +44 1428 644886
> Tel: +1 703 879 1890
> www.isabelhealthcare.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Mark Graber <Mark.Graber at IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG>
> *Reply-To: *Society to Improve Diagnosis in Medicine <IMPROVEDX at LIST.
> IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG>, Mark Graber <Mark.Graber at IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG>
> *Date: *Thursday, 6 December 2018 at 19:32
> *To: *"IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG" <IMPROVEDX at LIST.
> IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG>
> *Subject: *Re: [IMPROVEDX] [EXTERNAL] Re: [IMPROVEDX] DX measures
>
>
>
> Yes !!   I think the differential diagnosis is the key.
>
>
>
> In one of Hardeep’s papers (focused on outpatients), in cases of dx error
> there was NO differential diagnosis 80% of the time.  I haven’t seen data
> on inpatients and any correlation with dx accuracy.
>
>
>
> Mark Graber
>
>
>
> *From: *"Jarrett, Mark P" <MJarrett at NORTHWELL.EDU>
> *Reply-To: *Listserv ImproveDx <IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG>,
> "Jarrett, Mark P" <MJarrett at NORTHWELL.EDU>
> *Date: *Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 1:29 PM
> *To: *Listserv ImproveDx <IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG>
> *Subject: *Re: [IMPROVEDX] [EXTERNAL] Re: [IMPROVEDX] DX measures
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> I agree – but we often see anchoring based on the initial diagnosis that
> leads to less than ideal outcomes. The key to me is both a good
> differential (don’t always have to be right out of the gate) and purposeful
> reflection and re-evaluation.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark Jarrett, MD, MBA, MS
>
> SVP & Chief Quality Officer
>
> Associate Chief Medical Officer
>
> Northwell Health
>
> Professor of Medicine
>
> Zucker School of Medicine at Hofstra/Northwell
>
> (O): 516-321-6044
>
> (C): 917-796-3935
>
> mjarrett at northwell.edu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Mark Graber <Mark.Graber at IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG>
> *Reply-To: *Society to Improve Diagnosis in Medicine <IMPROVEDX at LIST.
> IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG>, Mark Graber <Mark.Graber at IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG>
> *Date: *Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 11:31 AM
> *To: *"IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG" <IMPROVEDX at LIST.
> IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG>
> *Subject: *[EXTERNAL] Re: [IMPROVEDX] DX measures
>
>
>
> *External Email. Use Caution.*
>
> Jason – thanks for continuing to press us all to develop practical
> measures we could all support that would lead to improved diagnosis.
>
>
>
> I do agree that concordance between an admission and discharge diagnosis
> might be one measure of the adequacy of the diagnostic process in the
> ambulatory setting.  But at the end of the day, I’d argue that ‘getting it
> right’ is likely more important than getting it right in the clinic alone.
>
>
>
> The agreement between admission and discharge diagnosis is fairly easy to
> measure and study, but this parameter is complicated !  First, in many
> hospitals the discharge diagnoses are assigned by coders whose primary goal
> seems to be centered on optimizing billing, not to capture diagnostic
> accuracy.  Second, and I may be old-fashioned here, but in my humble
> opinion there is no better time or place to make a diagnosis or to revise
> an initial impression.  It is so much easier to concentrate on a patient’s
> problems, consider and complete diagnostic evaluations, and get opinions
> from others during an inpatient stay compared to stretching these out over
> time and space in the ambulatory setting.  In this framework, any
> difference between the admitting and the discharge diagnosis is likely to
> be to the patient’s advantage and a good thing.  The disagreement noted in
> this study is almost certainly multifactorial, but if I had to guess, this
> data may be saying something positive about the diagnostic process in
> showing that the recorded diagnosis did in fact evolve during the admission.
>
>
>
>     Mark
>
>
>
> Mark L Graber, MD FACP
>
> Chief Medical Officer; Founder and President Emeritus, SIDM
>
> Professor Emeritus, Stony Brook University, NY
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Jason Maude <jason.maude at ISABELHEALTHCARE.COM>
> *Reply-To: *Listserv ImproveDx <IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG>,
> Jason Maude <jason.maude at ISABELHEALTHCARE.COM>
> *Date: *Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 9:41 AM
> *To: *Listserv ImproveDx <IMPROVEDX at LIST.IMPROVEDIAGNOSIS.ORG>
> *Subject: *[IMPROVEDX] DX measures
>
>
>
> This is a very interesting study (freely available) looking at the degree
> of match between the admission diagnosis and what the authors call the exit
> diagnosis.
>
>
>
> “Our results show that only the 21.67% of cases are identified correctly
> on admission….”
>
>
>
> Could this be used as a measure for diagnosis quality in hospitals? I am
> sure there will be concerns about the admitting diagnosis and clinicians
> being rushed to put something down without enough time but the ratio
> between the 2 diagnoses for an institution as a whole should be a useful
> indicator as would the trend over time. If the measure drove institutions
> to focus of getting the admitting diagnosis more accurate then that would
> be good.
>
>
>
> This should also be practical to produce as would not involve the
> clinicians in any additional work.
>
>
>
> In an earlier discussion, I asked if there were any measures that were
> practical, where there were no concerns and that we could all support but
> got replies. I really feel that if we are to get diagnosis the respect it
> deserves from hospitals and health systems then we need a measure. We have
> all been talking about this for a long time, but I do not sense we are any
> further forward!
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Jason Maude
>
> Founder and CEO Isabel Healthcare
> Tel: +44 1428 644886
> Tel: +1 703 879 1890
> www.isabelhealthcare.com
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.isabelhealthcare.com_&d=DwMGaQ&c=vq5m7Kktb9l80A_wDJ5D-g&r=OdFSWyd_9B_X_P7v0350Bl1aeyp7F5zA-lXlf2CKjKY&m=INGksrWRy1zKL1BamDNx4gGE4MQC_2HOGsslUu-ViF0&s=ShMxvrMch6y0Y-mkw58wVE9-hhgufGxXNmOuQJa0I0w&e=>
>
>
>
>
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Moderator: David Meyers, Board Member, Society to Improve Diagnosis in Medicine


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